We talk a lot about e-commerce on the podcast. We also talk a lot about the various ad platforms like Google Ads. Of course, those two often go hand in hand but I know many of you run marketing for brands or clients that don't sell anything online but you still need to use online ads to get the word out. Brands like B2B or those that sell very high-priced items that you just don't buy online.

I spoke recently with Google Ads trainer Jyll Saskin Gales.

Table of Contents

• Google vs Meta vs LinkedIn
• Which Platform is Best for non-Sales Objectives?
• Should you Track Conversions for Non-Sales Events?
• How Many Events the AI Needs
• Is ROAS Relevant for Non-Merchants?
• Seasonality and Competition
• Keyword Research
• What Is An Audience, Anyway?
• Top-Performing Formats for B2B Campaigns
• What is Performance Max
• Should B2B Brands Use Video?
• Marketing a Mobile App
• The Downsides of AI
• More about Jyll

Google vs Meta vs LinkedIn

Tod: How are the prospects that are seeing Google Ads different than those on Facebook or LinkedIn and how are they similar? Let's talk audience first.

Jyll: Absolutely. The key difference with Google Ads versus pretty much any other ad platform is that you have search. On LinkedIn or Facebook when you're trying to reach someone a business audience or any audience, you're trying to proactively reach someone who's not actively looking for your products. They're actively looking through their feed and you're the distraction.

Google Ads lets you do that as well through formats like discovery or video but Google also has search where people are actively looking for a solution to a problem they have, whether it's a new pair of yoga pants or a new accounting software or buying a new home. That's what's really powerful in Google Ads because you can actually do audience targeting based on what people are searching for on Google.

I'll give you an example. Let's say that you are a marketing agency. You're running Google search ads with people looking for digital marketing agency et cetera, et cetera. That's fine. That's really competitive. You're looking at $20 $30 CPC, cost per click. It can get really expensive really fast. You can then create an audience of people who have searched for those things on Google and then target those people proactively across image and video formats.

That's something that Google Ads can do very uniquely that the other ad platforms can't.

Tod: You're talking about creating essentially what we might call on other platforms a custom audience right? Where you're putting people in a bucket who've done the search and you don't necessarily have to then use search ads to reach them.

Jyll: Exactly. You can reach people based on what they've searched for recently but then try to reach them proactively rather than in the moment they're searching. That's really cool because let's be honest for B2B audiences. LinkedIn and Facebook have built-in capabilities that let you target people based on the company they work for. You just can't do that in Google Ads. Many people think Google Ads for B2B doesn't work. It's like, “No,” there's just different tactics you can do on Google that I always recommend should compliment the strategies you might be doing on LinkedIn or Facebook or both.

Which Platform is Best for non-Sales Objectives?

Tod: As far as getting trackable results like conversions. We'll talk in a second about what a conversion is, if you're not actually selling something but which of these platforms is better? I know your answer is going to be a, “It depends,” but we're going to get past that. In the real world if it's Facebook, is LinkedIn, is Google what's the common wisdom, and is that common wisdom incorrect.

Jyll: Common wisdom is that LinkedIn is the most extensive platform. In my personal experience running LinkedIn ads that's true. The flip side is LinkedIn does let you get the most specific and granular when you're trying to reach a business audience. If your target audience is lawyers who work at law firms between a certain size and a certain place, LinkedIn will let you target those people more accurately than any other platform, and the trade-off is you pay for it. It's more expensive to do so.

Theoretically, you're not having as much of your budget wasted. Net-net, it should work out for you. That is the common thing I hear, “Oh, LinkedIn's so expensive. LinkedIn's so expensive.” Yes, because the targeting capabilities are really great. In terms of Google Ads versus Facebook ads I'm not going to get into it like which is better. They both are great for different use cases and have different targeting capabilities.

I'm working with actually two clients right now in a B2B space where I'm running Google and Facebook for them. For one of them, the cost per lead on Facebook is better and for one of them, the cost per lead on Google is better. I really view it not as an either or but as in everything it's going to be so different for every industry and advertiser and creative and on and on.

Should you Track Conversions for Non-Sales Events?

Tod: If you're not selling anything, if it's not an e-Commerce brand, is it even worth conversion tracking?

Jyll: Absolutely. If you're not conversion tracking towards something, you are absolutely missing out. Actually related side note to that that's relevant here. If you are running Google Ads through the Google for non-profits program, where Google actually gives nonprofits $10,000 a month to spend on ads, even if you're just a nonprofit running those ads for free, you must have conversion tracking.

That's a system that Google put in place and the conversion can be anything but there has to be some kind of measurable objective. I think the fact that Google put that restriction onto the ad grant program is really indicative of just how important conversion tracking is because all of the automated bidding, not just in Google and all the platforms should and can work towards bidding for a conversion rather than a click. Let's say that you are a lead gen business.

One way, of course, is to track when someone submits a lead form or have data integration from HubSpot or Salesforce and other platforms but it doesn't have to be that complicated. There's actually an interior designer I was working with recently who gets a few dozen website visits a day nothing crazy. We just set up a conversion to be when someone visits the contact page because here we only get one or two people reaching out to contact him per month.

Actually, the website provider he was using wouldn't even let us track the button click. A lot of the easy-to-use website platforms don't let you do that. We just set it up via Google analytics, very easy that when someone visits the contact page that's a conversion. That way of the 10 to 20 paid clicks we were driving per day, we knew and Google Ads knew which of those were actually making moves towards contacting and reaching out.

That process may be applied the ad towards any industry. If you're selling super high ticket items that people aren't just going to check out online, maybe when someone visits the product page that's the conversion or when someone visits the page that contains the information for how to find your store, that can be a conversion. When someone spends a minute or more on your website that can even be a conversion.

There's lots of different options. Definitely better to have a lot of those micro-conversions, I call them, rather than just giving up and not having any conversion tracking.

Tod: I guess part of the reason for that, correct me if I'm wrong, is that all of these platforms, Google, Facebook, and so on have an optimization algorithm where they are always trying to get you better results. The only way they know whether or not something was a success that they can use to replicate is by tracking those events.

If you're interior designer for instance maybe only gets one lead every two weeks but those leads are high-value leads and tend to close a lot, two of those form completions a month may not be enough data to give these platforms to help them optimize. Your suggestion, if I have it right, is to back it up one level. Instead of the actual filling of the form it's the page where the form is, is it more so that we're giving more data to these optimization engines?

Jyll: That's exactly it, Tod. Best practice for Google Ads is to ensure you have at least one conversion per day in order for the bidding algorithms to learn. Even in the e-commerce world, there are many entrepreneurs I work with who aren't yet getting one sale per day through Google Ads. We have add-to-cart count as a conversion just for Google Ads purposes which gives it more data to learn faster so we can scale up and spend more. Then by doing so, we're going to start driving at least one purchase a day and then we can remove add-to-cart as counting and have purchase count and same thing for the lead gen or whatever other business it might be. It's all about giving the machine learning more data to learn.

How Many Events the AI Needs

Tod: I'm surprised it's only one a day. That seems awfully low to me where at Facebook, they're always moving the numbers around but Facebook suggests 50 in a seven-day period. One a day seems low. Maybe they're just really good at machine learning or something. That doesn't seem like a big data set for them to be making any algorithmic decisions on.

Jyll: I call that the bare minimum you need is one conversion per day. If you're only getting one conversion per day, it's going to take at least 30 days for you to start to learn some results. The other advice I give is you need to be spending at least $20 per day. We're talking about a $600 investment over the course of the month to maybe start to gather some data.

It's really that trade-up. The more you spend faster and the more conversion data you get faster, the faster you'll learn but you have to be willing to put that investment in first not quite knowing yet what the return will be. For the larger brands we work with, no problem. For smaller entrepreneurs, people just starting ads for the first time that can be tricky. That's why these micro-conversion actions are even more important when you're a smaller business or have a smaller budget.

Is ROAS Relevant for Non-Merchants?

Tod: If you're not selling things online, can you still use ROAS as a metric? Return on ad spend? How do we track the return on our investment on our ad spend if we're not generating revenue at the other end?

Jyll: There's a lot of different ways to do that. When I worked at Google I worked with some of the most sophisticated B2B advertisers and they actually did use ROAS because they were able to tie back their customer databases to whatever multi-thousand or million-dollar deals resulted at the end of the day from those ads. They did integrate those together and were able to learn but there are some workarounds for the mere mortals of us who don't have full marketing departments.

One is to optimize for a cost per lead or a CPA rather than a ROAS per purchase. Benefit to that is of course simplicity, a lead is a lead. The downside is that for many businesses, a lead isn't just a lead. There are qualified leads and not qualified leads and high quality, low quality, etcetera. Another option you can do is just putting estimations in for ROAS.

Again, in an e-commerce world, we're used to the revenue that comes into our Ad platform being like the actual revenue from selling the thing, but you can set a conversion rules to have dummy data, I would call it [unintelligible 00:10:27] so you know that on average at the end of the day your conversion rate from lead to qualified lead to customer ends up getting you X amount of revenue and you work the conversion rates backwards to say a lead is likely to get you $100 or $1,000 or whatever it might be and you can put those values into a Google Ads custom.

Honestly, the simplest way to do it is to put ROAS to the side and just focus on something like target CPA bidding, target cost proposition across per lead or failing that, just maximize conversions while the bidding strategy learns and figures out how to best use your budget.

Seasonality and Competition

Tod: It would strike me that as we record this right now, we are less than two weeks from Christmas. Is right now a terrible time for B2B brands and other non sellers to be in the market. What do you recommend to your clients?

Jyll: It's a great question. I haven't thought about that, so critically this of year. I guess as people who work in business, we're all calming down for the year and I don't think anyone's making any big B2B purchase decisions right now, but the flip side is there's definitely a place in market now to be driving awareness and affinity and consideration. I also wouldn't turn off your Ads. There might be some people who've been researching your products or services for the last three months and the last thing on their to-do list before they leave for the holidays is to finally make that decision.

I wouldn't launch a brand new B2B campaign right now, but for campaigns that are already running, I would leave them on and it's also a great time to start planning for what we want to do in Q1. I work with a few businesses where Q1 is that time of year and so right now is actually very busy getting all the planning in place so that once Jan 1 hits, it's just execute, execute, execute.

Keyword Research

Tod: Jyll, walk us through how you would go through keyword research then for a brand that is not e-commerce. Is there any different kind of a process for keyword research in terms of targeting or in terms of the list that you're developing?

Jyll: There absolutely is. I just went through this process actually a few days ago for a proposal I was putting together, so I'll think about what I did there. There's the obvious ones first, which is like what are our products or services now? X kind of software, solution for X, straight from A to B what is the problem the person might be searching for? What I often find with the companies I work with is that they may have a solution to a problem people don't know they have or maybe there's a very common problem and they have a brand new solution to it.

Forgive me for using the Uber analogy, but no one was searching for order a car with smartphones before Uber came out. A lot of B2B companies find themselves in that scenario. In addition to the obvious, which very often can either be expensive or have very low search volumes, try to take a step back and think about what's going on in the day of the B2B decision-maker you're trying to reach?

A common mistake I see marketers make is they think B2B is a company, but B2B is just people. We're all B2B, we're just people. The exercise I challenge people to do is pick one person, whether you know them in real life or not and try to go through their day with them and think about all the different ways you might be able to reach them. Let's say someone was trying to reach digital marketers. Tod Maffin might be an example of the ideal customer.

I'd say, think what's the first thing Tod does when he wakes up? What are the apps he checks on his phone? What's the news he's interested in? What's he thinking about in December? What's going to determine if he has a successful year or an unsuccessful year? When Tod needs a break throughout the day, what are some of the things he might like to do and on and on and on.

By doing that and putting yourself inside the head of your target customer as a real person, not just a business, you can think about the other kinds of things they might be searching for, the other types of media they may be consuming and that brings up lots of other opportunities to market to them, which is really just to start to develop a relationship with them. Very often, that means going beyond search Ads, which is something I love to do in Google Ads as well as other Ad platforms and as well as organically of course, not just with Ads.

What Is An Audience, Anyway?

Tod: Let's talk about going away from search in a second, but I just have to share with you this funny. I guess it was a meme that someone posted in one of the 4,000 slacks that I'm in. It was basically and it picked up on what you're talking about trying to understand your target buyer, not as a set of demographics, but as what do they do with their day and how do they all that sort of thing.

It was very funny, it had a photo of Prince Charles and it said, “mid-'50s, lives in a castle, very rich, has been divorced.” You think about him, but then it also to the right had Ozzy Osbourne who also lives in a castle, is filthy rich, has been divorced is of the same age. It really shows you that the model of demographic targeting may not always pull up what you're after, but you got to get into people's brains a little bit.

Jyll: I saw that meme too. I hate when people say blank is dead, but I'm going to go on the limit just demographics are dead, whether someone's male, female, 18 to 24, 55+ like that is not going to tell you much about whether or not they're the right customer for you. There's so much more to people that matters and every Ad platform gives us so much more sophistication to truly try to understand and reach new audiences.

Tod: My very first job was at a PR firm, well, my first job in marketing was at a PR firm in marketing agency and I was probably 22 or 23. I remember sitting at a client table and my boss, the president of the agency asked the client, “What's your target demographic?” The client said, “Really, we're trying to reach like 21 to 55.” My boss took a second and said, “That's not a demographic, that's a city.”

Top-Performing Formats for B2B Campaigns

It always stuck with me that sometimes we go a little bit too broad. You mentioned Ad formats and search of course being one. What are the other ones you talked about? I heard Discover, I know YouTube is out there, there are image extensions, there are lead form extensions. What are the most best-performing formats for someone in B2B or a brand that isn't selling anything online?

Jyll: Best formats for someone who's basically not doing e-commerce, in Google Ads, Beyond Search the two I would recommend are two that you just mentioned Discovery and YouTube. Those two really go hand in hand. Discovery is an image-based format, it's like a display Ad but it only runs on Google-owned properties and then YouTube, of course, is a video format.

Both YouTube and Discovery have all the same audience targeting options, whether it's Google's built-in audience, you can target people who are business professionals, the most basic. At any get of time, one in four people is on that Google audience, but they've cut out the 75% of the population who's likely not a business professional. There are the in-market audiences in Google.

People who are in-market for accounting software or help desk software or payroll or on and on and on and on through image and through video. Then in addition to the Ad formats themselves are the extensions that you mentioned. Two of my favorite extensions right now, one is the lead form extensions. This is something that I see people use again a lot on Facebook and on LinkedIn Ads because there it's its own format, the lead format. Whereas in Google Ads the lead format is just an extension that you put onto whatever kind of Ad you're running. You can add a lead form extension onto video, search image, really any kind of Ad format. That's a great one.

Tod: Is it the same experience? It pops up in mobile, it's just how you place it. It's not an Ad format per see, it's like an extra on whatever Ad you're running. Is that right?

Jyll: Exactly that's right. It works the exact same way, you'll see it and you click it, it auto-fills your information. It's a great experience and the person doesn't have to click the item, visit your website. They can fill out the lead form right from within YouTube or Gmail or wherever they happen to be at the time. Then the other extension I'm trying to tell everyone about these is the image extension for search Ads, which is brand new and just recently rolled out to all accounts. It's the first time outside of shopping Ads, really that you've been able to put an image with your search text Ads.

I highly recommend you do that. There's actually a setting where Google will recommend one of the few Google Ads recommendations. I do suggest accepting, it'll recommend letting Google Ads call your website, find images and then just dynamically put them next to your Ads. That can be a great way to start or you can upload your logo or store photos or photos of your staff or whatever it might be and have that run next to your search Ads, which really helps you stand out on the search engine results page.

What is Performance Max

Tod: What is Performance Max?

Jyll: Performance Max is the one campaign type to rule them all. It's really the direction that Google has been going in for years of more and more automation. Right now, I would not recommend Performance Max for B2B advertisers. It's really been designed with shopping in mind, e-commerce, and local, and that's where it is right now. In the future will it take over? Absolutely. It's displaced smart shopping and local campaigns or rather smart shopping and local campaigns will be upgraded to Performance Max in the new year. We know that upgraded is the Google Ads euphemism.

Tod: Automatically or will we have that choice?

Jyll: The language says that they will be upgraded would generally suggest they will be moved over, forced into the new Performance Max but that's not a bad thing. Early indications that Performance Max works really well. It may also be taking over DSA, Dynamic Search Ads because one of the cool things that Performance Max lets you do is it lets you still pick specific parts of your website that you want to be targeted and not and you can set up rules.

In my opinion, it seems like Google is really trying to give advertisers what they want, which is the great automation and machine learning around targeting and creative and all that stuff but still some control and insight into what the machine learning is actually doing and the ability to steer the machine learning a little bit in the right direction, men and machine working together. In my opinion, not a B2B solution yet, will it become one in 2022? Probably, in my opinion.

Should B2B Brands Use Video?

Tod: Would you recommend video for B2B brands?

Jyll: I would absolutely recommend video for B2B brands. YouTube's own advertiser website has a great playbook for creating great YouTube creative. Especially because your customer acquisition cost in B2B can often be a lot higher than for an e-commerce product. There's a lot more space to play with video and try to reach new audiences and create some brand affinity and share testimonials and case studies and all these things.

There are formats for YouTube that are supposed to drive conversion directly. They work but not as efficiently as some other formats might but if you try to compare it to your top of funnel tactics you might be doing on other platforms, YouTube can be a great top or mid-funnel tactic to complement that.

Of course, sight, sound, and motion is so powerful in building brand affinity, building awareness, telling a story. Something that I actually prefer about YouTube and [unintelligible 00:22:23] I might sound like a Google show when I say this, but the vast majority of YouTube videos are viewed with sound on. That's the opposite of Facebook and LinkedIn, where the vast majority of NP videos are viewed with sound off.

That's the reason I especially recommend YouTube for B2B advertisers because it's a pretty unique opportunity in digital to have people consume your content with sight, and sound, and motion.

Marketing a Mobile App

Tod: There are, of course, other types of marketing outside of e-commerce that are not B2B. One of them is people who market mobile apps. Can you touch on some of the best practices around mobile apps that you've noticed in the last few months?

Jyll: Yes, absolutely. Mobile apps were actually the first industry to be pushed into automation by Google Ads. A few years ago now, the universal app campaign came out, which is just an app campaign. If you're an app advertiser wanting to drive app downloads or even better in-app actions, then it's a fully automated campaign type. All you do is give it a couple of assets, text, image, video, you give it absolutely no targeting, you can only exclude some audiences if you want to, and then-

Tod: What? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, no what? No targeting?

Jyll: You don't give it any targeting. You can give it audiences to exclude, but you don't explicitly pick which audiences you want to reach.

Tod: Huh?

Jyll: Same as many other automated, local campaigns work the same way you don't get to pick your targeting, smart shopping works the same way. App campaigns were the first ones to do it years ago.

Tod: What can I specify? Can I specify age, gender?

Jyll: No, demographics are dead Tod, but no, absolutely not. All you do is give it the ad assets. They don't call it a responsive ad but essentially, it's a responsive ad. You give it a budget and your target cost per install and it goes and gets you installed.

Tod: Wait, okay, you're blowing my mind. Does everyone know about this? Am I part of a– When did this happen where there's no targeting suddenly? It's been there for a while?

Jyll: Years ago, this was, I want to say 2017, 2018 this came out. If I recall the timeline correctly, app campaigns were the first ones to do it fully automated in the Google Ads universe. Then came smart display, which is the same concept as display ads that you give no targeting, they just figure it out.

Tod: Based on what?

Jyll: Local campaigns work that way.

Tod: If I have a mobile app and it's a game how do they know it's just going to use its own– I don't get any insight. I can't say people who like games and who like farming.

Jyll: Not with an app campaign. No. This is why now, when Google announced Performance Max, it was really interesting because Google said, “Oh, you can give the Performance Max campaign some audiences, help steer it in the right direction.” Because marketers have had your reaction Tod of, “What do you mean I can't tell it what I want?”

The downside to it, of course, is that you don't get much insight. You might be getting all these installs or in-app actions, but you don't know what audiences are working for you. The flip side is I'm working with some advertisers now where I know who our target audience is, I set our target audience for regular discovery or video campaigns. I would say 80% of the time when I let Google take some of my budget and do what's called extension targeting, like figure out its own outside of what I said, the extension targeting works better than my targeting. 8 times out of 10.

2 times out of 10 it doesn't and I get pissed but 8 times out of 10 I might have a product that I am selling jewelry to people who are in market for jewelry, and that's the targeting I set, and somehow, the expansion and optimized targeting that Google Ads picks, does better than what I picked. I would say confidently 8 times out of 10 that's what happens.

Tod: How do you know that happening? Is there a way inside the dashboard to say, “Show me the metrics for just my targeting and then also show me the metrics for the expanded targeting?” Or are you creating one campaign that has your targeting, and then duplicating it and creating a second one that has the expanded version?

Jyll: You can duplicate it if you want, but by default, it's all within one campaign. I add whatever audiences I want to add, whether it's marketing or similar audience or Google's audience, whatever it might be and then of course, by default, expansion and optimized targeting will be turned on, you can turn it off if you want to. Then it'll break down how each of my audiences did and how the expansion optimized targeting did.

That's really important Tod because in Facebook, there's the same functionality, but they don't break it out by audience. In Google, you can break it out. The only thing I have learned from two accounts I've seen it in so far is that in Google Analytics when I'm looking at the performance of my campaigns if it comes to the expansion optimized targeting, my Google Analytics say that it doesn't know what campaign it came from for whatever reason. It's a weird little quirk I've seen happening lately.

Any case, what actually will happen, let's say that a campaign spends $1,000, I might see that $800 went towards this expansion in optimized targeting and $200 towards my targeting. Initially, I was really annoyed when I saw this happen, really annoyed but again, 8 times out of 10 it gets better results, whether my results and I'm not just talking about click-through rate, RoW Ads is better, our CPA is better. I can't argue with that. Oh, yes.

The Downsides of AI

Tod: Clearly, I'm the grumpy old guy that is still stuck in the let us control everything kind of thing but it's clear that there's benefits to that. In fact, just today, we have a client at our agency, where we do a very basic, it's mostly an organic program and engagement moderation, but we do occasionally boost some posts for them. Just today, I noticed that this little thing and I'm going to read you, this is in the Boost Post part of the screen, the little mini wizard that pops up essentially.

Jyll: This is Facebook, I'm assuming.

Tod: This is Facebook, it's a Facebook. Normally there's a little checkbox that says, “Do you want us to expand it if we feel that you will get better opportunities?” That checkbox is now gone and instead, it says this, “Audience may be broader. This lets our system explore more opportunities to show your ads.” There's no checkbox. There's no turn it on. There's no give us feedback on this. It's just we're going to do this. Is that the future, Jyll?

Jyll: It's the present Tod. Three months ago I would share your outrage. Even in my post Google days no longer drunk on Kool-Aid, I would share your outrage but I just seen it enough times in the last few weeks that, of course, the machine knows better than us to know where we're going to get the best results. Also, we can choose our audiences, our location targeting.

There's thousands of signals that the bidding algorithms can take into account at the time of that auction that we couldn't even set if we wanted to. For example, Google Ads does not let you explicitly target certain browsers or operating systems but the bidding algorithm itself can decide to make changes based on that. I think that's part of it as well, that these ad platforms are already so complex, and then underneath the hood, there's so much more complex, there's already even more complexity being hidden from us.

That's the way it's going, and that's why I'm so confident in where performance mass is going as the be-all-end-all, fully automated campaign type. Smart display was not it. I am not a fan of that product. Local campaigns smart shopping has some benefits, has some drawbacks. This is the direction it's going, machines are better at analyzing large data sets and making decisions based on them than humans are. That's really what this part of digital marketing is.

More about Jyll

Tod: I was speaking with robot lover, Jyll Saskin Gales. [laughs] Her website is jyll.ca. Her Tik Tok, which, by the way, you have to follow, you must follow if you do digital marketing. It is the_google_pro, always good information there, always solid. Jyll, tell us what's on your website, jyll.ca. Then afterwards, let's talk a little bit about what the ideal client would be for you. What is on your website that people could get some value from? Why should they visit?

Jyll: A few things on my website right now, of course, information about how to work with me, if you'd like me to consult for your business, work on ads with you, coach you on digital marketing, but some newer things on there. I have a course, TikTok for business Bootcamp. That's brand new because I was able to grow my business on TikTok, and information about that is there.

Then in the new year, I'm actually going to be launching my own Google Ads courses. This is actually the first time I'm sharing that news publicly. For Google Ads practitioners who want to build their skills, and like the conversation like the one we're having today, on my website, you can sign up for my newsletter and you'll be the first to hear when that launches, hopefully in January 2022.

Tod: One of the reasons that I always come back to you is because, unlike so many people who have very basic courses on Google Ads, you have worked at Google Ads, you have done this for major brands for years. I think that back-end experiences is super valuable. What kind of organization or brand or entity do you think gets the most value in working from you? Who's your ideal customer?

Jyll: Right now, there are two kinds. My ideal customer is a fellow marketer, and it's either a marketer who runs their own agency or is working within an agency, is actively managing Google Ads for clients, and just wants someone who they can talk to to help them uplevel their skills, drive better results, ensuring you're taking advantage of all the best of the platform. That's one piece of my client base.

Then the other piece is in-house marketers who actually don't want to work with an agency, they want to have that in-house capability because they see how core Google Ads is as a profit driver for their business. They hire me to come in and coach them so that they can build that capability in-house. I initially started my business to help small businesses and entrepreneurs, and then through that found that the entrepreneurs who are reaching out to me were fellow marketers.

That's really where I focus now, and I love being able to share my insights as someone who has worked at Google and has also now worked outside of Google, as well as how Google Ads really can be used in combination with the other ad platforms. I love covering the similarities and the differences. That's something that I get really excited about.

Tod: What's the best way for people to reach you?

Jyll: Best way for people to reach me is through my website jyll.ca. You can also find me on Tik Tok or Instagram and Google Pro. I look forward to chatting with you. Thank you again, Tod, so much for having me today to talk about Google Ads for non-ecommerce businesses. I know those business owners get neglected so often. I love being able to share some of these tips that can really help them show all the ways you can use Google Ads for your business and your clients' businesses.

Tod: It's always a pleasure having you on. I should mention, you also from time to time jump into our Slack. If you're not in our podcast, Slack, you can go do today in digital.com/slack. You're in there from time to time answering questions about Google. Thank you again so much, and we'll speak again soon.

Jyll: Thank you.